15 discussions

Help with Search
Sort discussions Activating the sort button will cause content on the page to be updated.

Hunter Gatherers Affluent Society

   Marshall Sahlin’s depiction of the original affluent society is different than I had always thought. In my mind these hunter-gatherer societies were a dark time in human history. These people would spend their entire lives on the brink of hunger desperately trying to survive in every minute. Sahlin paints a different picture. He describes these societies as being quite easy going and comfortable. The working adults that provided for the rest only worked 15 hour weeks.

  Generally modern society is led to believe that this was a time of scarcity, fear, and death. However, this really was not the case. Food was generally abundant. We view them as being incredibly poor, but they had the materials they needed and knew nothing of the ones we think we need today. I personally am not a “let’s all move to the woods and become hunter-gatherers” type of person, but I do think we can learn a lesson from them and work on implementing a more simplistic lifestyle. 

0 replies

The Original Affluent Society

There is no doubt in my mind that the hunter gather communities of the past were the original affluent society. However, affluence of the time looked different than what we see today. In modern times affluency is measured by your assets, your house, your job, and your riches. While within hunter gather societies, they were affluent because their resources were plentiful, there was rarely a time in which they couldn’t walk out into the wild and find what they needed. The disconnect comes from present day needs of overindulgence. We work so much because we want so much. With gatherers they could go out for a few hours one day and have enough food to feed their family for the week leaving them ample time to do the rest of their daily tasks like clean up the kitchen or fetch water. They were not under this pressure to consume more and more and they were satisfied with what they had. They were affluent because their way of life was simple and focused on surviving day in and day out and they had the means to do such. 
0 replies

The Original Affluent Society

While reading this article, it reminded me about the Jared Diamond reading we had earlier in the semester. It still amazes me that people, like Sir George Grey, have proven that the hunter-gatherer lifestyle is more efficient than people today might think. Sir George proves that the idea of unreliable food sources for hunter-gatherers, like the Aborigines, false and states that he "always found the greatest abundance in their huts." One thing that this article does that Diamond's did not is discuss how these misconceptions of hunter-gatherer society came to be. Adam Smith's capitalist idea of economy has changed how people today view resources. Sahlins explains how capitalism makes consumers today view resources as scarce, which encourages consumers to buy more. This creates a demand for an increase in production that can wreak havoc on the food supply because it forces crops to grow at a larger yield than what is natural. Sahlins has evidence of this in his line where he declares that "Bushman food collecting is more efficient than French farming in the period up to World War II."
0 replies

Epicureans and Dionysus

Our talk on monday focused more on epicureanism than the subjects for today- but it got me thinking about some of the parallel ideology of Dionysian cults and Epicurean thought. I don’t know if i’m a little off the mark here but they both are focused on pleasure (dionysus maybe more so focused more on the wordy aspects like drinking- which isn’t necessarily one of the main things that Epicurus focuses on). Both seemed to enjoy lounging around and having sex as part of their enjoyment of the pleasures of the world. Dionysus also had women followers as well. I just thought the parallels were interesting especially when it doesn’t seem like Epicurus is interested in Dionysus at all. I was wondering if there had been any research to indicate that they may have had some relation? 
0 replies

The Original Affluent Society

In this article it shares the relationship between hunters and gatherers. Also there is some tie in from last class. As we talked about the necessity of being happy and survive, we talked about things we dont really need that makes us either happy or sad. These hunters they did not work a lot as compared to other people. However, from them not needing much to be satisfied correlates back to what we talked about in class.


The hunters only worked on average between 3 or 5 hours. Even tho they did not have much of anything, they were necessarily considered in poverty or being poor. It just did not take much for them to be happy. It just shows how satisfied others can be in comparison with someone else.

0 replies

The Original Affluent Society

Reading The Original Affluent Society article brought up a lot of insight into the meaning of wealth and stability to hunter-gatherers. These people lived off of a few hours of work, catching and preparing meals, per week. Specifically, Sahlins writes that "the food quest is so successful that half the time the people seem not to know what to do with themselves." In relation to physical possessions or the ownership of properties, they could not have been less interested. To them, there was no use in having nice tools or items of high monetary value because it did not affect their lifestyle. More likely, these kinds of items would have only brought a greater burden onto them due to their nomadic lifestyle. To this point, Sahlins says "most must carry themselves all the comforts they possess, and so only possess what they can comfortably carry themselves." This challenges many of the beliefs that modern people have of the hunting/gathering lifestyle. What sounds to most like a miserable lifestyle, full of constantly struggling to find food and hide from starvation, is actually not so.
This article made me think back to Monday's conversation about Epicureanism and finding happiness within a minimalistic lifestyle. Similar to the ideas of Epicurus, hunter-gatherers find happiness and peace without fighting for a life of high monetary value. While a life with this mindset sounds ideal, I believe it is also implausible. A life of simple pleasures being enough to satisfy a lifetime works well for those who are raised with this mindset, but for most modern people that is not the case. I believe that due to the fact that we have been exposed to the economic heavy, money-centered world that we live in, attempting to erase the value of that would be almost impossible. 

0 replies

Wealth as a burden

While reading this article, I found the discussion of wealth with hunter gatherers interesting. There is a misconception that hunter gatherers lived day to day, with most of their time taken up by hunting for meals. There is also a misconception, on the other end, that hunter gatherers couldn’t get a plentiful amount of food. A lot of people have the belief that if hunters could get more food, they surely would. This is most likely wrong. « Of the hunter it is truly said that his wealth is a burden », this cleared up this misconception for me, and clarified that hunter gatherers could have very well had an intricate society and way of living. The phrase I quoted was said in reference to wealth as a hunter gatherer. During this time, that material had to be taken with you on any journeys that you go. To have a plentiful amount of food was not very smart in some cases because you wouldn’t me able to take it wherever you go as easily. Food quantities had to be thought out. And after reading this, I had a better understanding of how impressive they were as a whole
0 replies

The Original Affluent Society

To be affluent means to have a great deal of money or wealth and today in our society that usually only means to be wealthy and have lavish things but not in the original affluent society. This society would rather have a plethora of natural resources, an absence of an economic surplus, also energy from lots of people in terms of hunting and gathering. These natural resources are not exactly what comes to mind when thinking about an affluent society. 


The European hunter and gathers had no sort of material valuable possessions. They felt no kind of material pressure except when it came to food and water. Natural resources that could be very pricy today like wood, shelter, and weapons were tools that they share no sense of belonging or greed. This definitely ties into Epicureanism's ideas of natural and necessary desires and how we should limit ourselves to these things if we want to be happy. I think we should focus more on these needs and spend less time focusing on the unnatural and unnecessary desires the world offers.   

0 replies

The Wealth Paradox and Treatment of Possessions

Sahlins's article was particularly interesting to read. Most notable in this reading was the mention of the paradox that true wealth only exists in the presence of a low standard of living, while the industrialized version of wealth inherently relies on scarcity to remain intact, necessarily creating an exploitative false scarcity so others can manipulate the economic system and accumulate wealth. The addition of the example of Aborigines who thrive on the hunter-gatherer model of existence drives home the point that those with the low standard of living and comparatively high abundance do not suffer for their economic structure.

This reading draws immediate parallels to Lynn White's thesis on how agriculture may have been the first (and largest) of many steps which led to the inequality and environmental dangers we face today. While the thesis may seem a little too good to be true, it is helpful in establishing the competitive accumulation of resources as the origin of inequality throughout society. While accumulation is an example of wanting more resources than one has, the hunter-gatherer model exemplifies having an abundance of resources relative to the need. This leads to the example of the tribe that does not take care of their belongings. It would seem intuitive that individuals coming from a lower standard of living would prize and preserve their possessions, but the tribe mentioned by Sahlins has no issue tossing theirs to the side or mistreating them. This proves the tribe's perceived abundance, as this sort of behavior is similar to that of the exorbitantly wealthy in a capitalist society.

It is interesting and somewhat profound that the behavior of this tribe mimics the behavior of the wealthy so closely, but the inclusion of this example simply proves Sahlins's point that low means can still generate prosperity.

0 replies

Lucretius

One thing I find very interesting about Lucretius is his concerns with the environment. Before taking this class, I did not really consider that those in the Ancient world had viewpoints on the environment, but this text shows just how concerned these cultures were with it. Lucretius makes many striking points about nature and the way the world works, all of which are thought-provoking and applicable to today’s society. I really liked how Lucretius Book 5 connected to the article we had to read for class, “The Original Affluent Society”. Both these texts provided commentary on hunting, but what stood out to me from Lucretius is the explanation of how animals came to be and why animals existed on Earth beginning around line 785. Books 5 and 6 of Lucretius that we had to read for class both had a very Biblical feel in my opinion. By describing the way animals came from the heavens because “there was a great abundance of warmth and moisture in the ground” feels very much like a story straight out of Genesis. Rather, instead of creating the world for men, Lucretius describes creation as resulting from the desire in nature itself. Rather than designing the world in God’s image, animals seem to come straight from nature. 

Another somewhat Biblical reference I picked up on from Lucretius was the description of the plague at the end of Book 6. Because of it’s placement at the end of the book and it’s daunting, almost warning language, this read like something that could possibly be found in Revelation. Although the plague mentioned in Lucretius did not bring about the end of the world, there is a very intimidating tone to the text. The way Lucretius describes it seems to warn those reading about the dangers associated with the plague. Reading this really allowed an insight into just how destructive this plague actually was, both for humankind and for the world around us. The most striking part of this text in my opinion was that “some were so afraid...that they cut off their sexual organs and so prolonged their existence.” This stood out to me because even though these people were suffering terrible symptoms, they still feared death above all else. More than wanting to end their pain, they wanted to live on earth. Going back to our discussion on Monday, this definitely shows the Epicurean belief that fear of death can affect happiness, because these people feared death so much that they would rather suffer terrible pain than cross over. 

0 replies

Original Affluent society

It is interesting, people believed hunter-gatherers ate very little or expected the same luxuries of European settlers. Sir George Grey believed native Australians “have small means of subsistence, or are at times greatly pressed for want for food”. A European who is used to having large variety and quantities available may believe hunter-gatherers must eat similar to themselves. Many hunter-gatherers only got enough food for what was needed for the day. They would migrate with the animals to always ensure a food source but they did not require much variety, sort of like modern day meal-prepping, you may not like what you have but is necessary to reach a certain goal.

0 replies

Original Affluent Society

The thing that stuck out to me in this reading is the misconception  that people have about the amount of time hunter gatherer societies worked compared to modern workers. It seems clear to me that overall they would have way less time working since they just needed to provided enough food to live each day instead of trying to make as much as possible. The misconception probably comes from modern people imagining the worst situations hunters and gatherers could be in, or insert themselves into that lifestyle.  For people who are not socialized to want to consume as much as modern humans do, this lifestyle could be completely possible and fulfilling. 


I think that hunter gatherer societies probably had very affluent and rich cultures in a way that we don't quite understand. Today we are driven to become rich in order to fulfill our seemingly endless amount of desires, but in their society they had the freedom to pursue whatever they wanted that was available to them naturally. We probably won't know to what extent their culture was like, but we can assume that with more free time they had an extremely rich group culture. 

0 replies

Minimalism versus Capitalism

The article, “The Original Affluent Society” raises questions regarding our concept of wealth and its dependence on the material “things” we often want in our possession to be considered accomplished. Typically, we view wealth as an amassment of material or substantial objects we feel that we need or that are resemblant of our success in life. Sahlin provides an example of an interaction between Laurens Van Der Post and the hunter group of Bushmen which exposes our general materialistic tendencies in comparison to the efficient way of life the Bushmen lead. Van de Post was “embarrassed” by his lack of aid he could give to the group because they were genuinely content and thriving from possessing much less than himself. He claimed it seemed that anything he could offer would almost hinder their way of life because of their insistence on minimizing their physical belongings. Not only do the Bushmen not have many possessions, but they do not want them because such excess of unnecessary items would only require extra care and attention to keep up. 

The practice of minimalism is representative of the way in which hunters approach life and is based upon possessing genuine needs rather than succumbing to unnecessary wants. I believe modern society has swayed our perception of affluence and wealth into a capitalistic direction, fueling the unnecessary want for objects with little actual intrinsic value. Our society has convinced us that the accumulation of material objects will somehow fulfill us in comparison to others. Our tendency to associate wealth and affluence with the acquisition of objects only sets us up for comparison and competition between people with the same overall goals of existence. The modern association of minimalism with economic unintelligence stems solely from our society’s push towards advancement through capitalism.


0 replies

the original affluent society

"But are hunters so undemanding of material goods because they are themselves enslaved by a food quest "demanding maximum energy from a maximum number of people", so that no time or effort remains for the provision of other comforts?" This line in our reading class really stuck out to me. Are they enslaved by their constant need to hunt for their food? I think we might see it that way, but I don't think they would have. Further down in this paragraph, it talks about how their occupation requires a lot of movement so they come to despise the wealth that they acquire. If they have too much stuff, then they might have too much to carry. These people don't take pride in their possessions necessarily because they only have as much as they can carry. And everything they have is used for survival alone. They don't have things just to show off. They only have what is necessary for their survival. I don't think they see it as enslavement because they just see it as living. That is how they live. If they were given gifts it would only make their lives harder because they would have to worry about carrying those gifts around. Wealth becomes a burden to them. 

0 replies

Lucretius

    I found it fascinating the thought that every living thing is birth from the earth and through this process earth gains the name of Mother. Viewing creation from a non-religious context presence a new and refreshing outlook on things seen from different perspectives. The way in which things came to be from this perspective invites pondering. the notion that living creatures spring to life from the sun and the rain sounds beautiful; "The earth, you see, first produced animals at that time because there was a great abundance of warmth and moisture in the ground"(Smith 158-1590). The earth didn't just create but clothe and nurtured its creations. The earth made humans tough and resourceful, they use animal skin to clothe themselves they use the grass as their beds. They didn't have many worries and they didn't have fear. Then there is this shift of men losing their toughness by having children and making fire. 

   I thought this was also interesting about the sounds men would make to communicate and how these sounds are part of our instincts; As for the various sounds of speech, it was nature that prompted human beings to utter them and it was utility that coined the names of things"(smith 164). This suggests that nature is the ultimate contributor to our happiness. Later in the text, it talks about once we get away from these earthly pleasures we start taking for granted what the earth provided. Humans start to live and want the unnecessary and unnatural vs the natural and necessary. I enjoyed Lucretius' views it provided me with an internal look at myself and the things that are really important.

0 replies